• Kevin Shabaar Smith

#110 Workroom Interview with Rachel Freemon Sowers

Updated: Mar 30

UGLY BUSINESS EPISODE #110





VISIT RACHEL'S WEBSITE HERE: https://www.rachelfreemonsowers.com/


Kevin Shabaar Smith:

All right, everybody. I am here today with Rachel Freemon Sowers. She is a fantastic coach, and I am so excited to have her here. We have been working on it for some time now and finally I get the chance to speak to her. I'm very excited. Rachel, how are you doing today?


Rachel Freemon Sowers:

Oh my gosh, I'm doing so well. I cannot wait for this interview. I'm so excited.


Kevin Shabaar Smith:

Yeah, I appreciate you taking the time with me today. I have to tell everybody who's listening today, when we first started talking about this podcast, of course I had to do some research and I was checking out Rachel's website and checking out some of her material, and if there's one word that I could use to describe Rachel, it is authenticity. That's it. She's the real deal. And I couldn't wait to have this conversation with her. So Rachel, thank you for joining me. I really appreciate it. And just for the sake of intro, can you tell the viewers who you help and how you help them?


Rachel Freemon Sowers:

Thanks so much, Kevin. It's so great to be here like I said already. I help female online entrepreneurs and professionals work through the emotional challenges and the strategic challenges of building a business and professional life online.


Kevin Shabaar Smith:

Perfect. I have to say, I love your energy, I love everything about what I've seen of you and everything that we've talked about in terms of our previous conversations, so it's good to have you here. So let's go ahead and dive in.


Kevin Shabaar Smith:

All right. So you help entrepreneurs, typically female entrepreneurs, connect with this emotional, I don't want to say deficit, but maybe a disconnect or an awareness, is that-

Rachel Freemon Sowers:

Okay.



VISIT RACHEL'S WEBSITE HERE: https://www.rachelfreemonsowers.com/


Kevin Shabaar Smith:

... the right way to say it? Do you find with the men that you've worked with, you've worked with a few, is there... When I just close my eyes and envision it, I envision this vast ocean of difference between the two, do you find that to be true, or is that just this typical stereotype that is just floating out there?


Rachel Freemon Sowers:

So, I think that I attract male clients that are more in tune with their emotions, which is why they're attracted to me. So, now, I've had male clients that in the beginning can be quite like, well, dah, dah, dah, and dah, dah, and they want to go to the facts. Right. And that's great. Right? We need the balance in the world. We don't need all Rachel Freemon Sowers, because, oh Lord, help me, that would no one, all right, I'm just saying. And this is the real part. Right?


Kevin Shabaar Smith:

Yeah. Right.


Rachel Freemon Sowers:

And it's that challenging, but if you look under challenging behaviors, no matter whether you're a male or female, it's all from the same part of defensiveness, right? It's individually assigned according to what your experiences have been, but the human condition is the same. And I think this is where we really can cut ourselves short, because women are more like this, or men are more like that. And those generalities can be true, but the only reason they're like that is because in our culture we've determined them to be like that.


Kevin Shabaar Smith:

Right. Yes. For sure.


Rachel Freemon Sowers:

So when people tell me, well, this is just the way I am, because women say, well, this is just the way I am, I'm just a people pleaser, and men will say, well, this is just what I do, I just give people the answers, or I do this one thing, I say, that's only what you do or who you are until you're not that anymore.


Kevin Shabaar Smith:

Right. Yeah. And I think that, yeah, I think that that makes a lot of sense because they're already in tune so they know. I'm talking from the male perspective, right? So they're already in tuned with the link between the emotions and success in business or in life. And so they resonate with your message. That makes total sense. And I think that, so I'm going to keep it real here really quick on the mindset issue.


And I'm a mindset guy. Everyone who's listening to me knows that I'm a mindset guy. But this is the thing that drives me absolutely bonkers online, when I'm having discussions with people in person or when I'm reading through groups and things online, because I'm a member of a lot of groups like I'm sure many of the people who listen here are, so many people use mindset as a crutch when they're helping people.


Kevin Shabaar Smith:

Like I'm having trouble with this, oh well, it's your mindset. Well, I'm having trouble with this, oh well, it's typically a mindset thing. It's become this umbrella. And so when you talk about, okay, going back to what we talked about earlier in our chat, mindset is important, but it's not just mindset, right? It's this emotional attachment that you have to a very specific thing.


Rachel Freemon Sowers:

Right.



VISIT RACHEL'S WEBSITE HERE: https://www.rachelfreemonsowers.com/


Kevin Shabaar Smith:

So I think it's so important to take that extra step deeper, like you help people do, and really get past just this mindset thing into the very specific programming that's going on. So, it's so good to hear you talk about that. And for those of you who are listening to me and hear me, quit using mindset as a crutch, right? It's more than that. Don't make me get upset in the podcast. So, yeah.


Rachel Freemon Sowers:

I think one of the things that people do is that they're not... When they look at these things that are no longer helpful, they're just patterned ways of being. But realizing as we go throughout our whole entire lives, there's a patterned way of being that we've decided that our bodies, our minds, our spirits have told us we need to be doing in order to stay safe. A lot of people don't want to dive into the emotions, and I've been a therapist for a really long time, because they think they're going to go back to their childhood. They think they're going to have to dredge up all that stuff.


Rachel Freemon Sowers:

And for me as a therapist, that's never where I went unless was needed. Even now, it's not deciding why you do it. You know why you do it. I mean, I'm 47 years old and I know why I keep going to the potato chips instead of the celery, right? I know that. And all I need to do is decide what I want now. And that has to be more of what I want than what I've been doing, right? So we take on this patterned way of being and we say it's my identity, this is who I am. It's not who you are, it's what you've done up until now.


Rachel Freemon Sowers:

It's not easy looking at some of the things that are no longer helpful, because we've hung onto these beliefs, we've hung onto these ways of being, and we do think that we'd be giving up a part of ourselves when in all actuality you're not giving up a part of yourself, you're transforming that part of yourself into something that is more helpful in your life. And why would you not do that?


Kevin Shabaar Smith:

Right. Yeah. 100%


Rachel Freemon Sowers:

Right. So the mindset is like, I want to change my mind, I want to change my mind. And I think we've talked a little bit about this, but I don't believe that will power is infinite. I believe that it's finite, and we can drive... All of the people I've ever helped are ambitious, driven, and highly intellectual. They're intelligent. It's not that you don't know what you do or what to do, it's more like you're not doing it because of a different reason, because of an emotion.


Kevin Shabaar Smith:

Yeah. So there's a lot of entrepreneurs out there, believe me there's coaches that are listening to this right now. And I'm just using this as an example because I hear it the most, I'm just not good at sales, right? I'm just not good at sales. It's just me, I have this thing I just ugh. Right? And I always ask myself, because I'm one of the... I've transformed. Right. Because I used to think that I was no good in sales, and then I got a sales job, then it confirmed that I was no good at sales, and then I became good at sales. I don't know how it happened. I never analyzed it that much.


Kevin Shabaar Smith:

But I hear a lot of people saying they're just not good at sales, and then we start digging into it, and they've never done it.


Rachel Freemon Sowers:

Right.


Kevin Shabaar Smith:

And so, I'm wondering, are they avoiding it because of emotional programming or something like that.


Rachel Freemon Sowers:

Right. The self doubt. Sales is a skill. And I would wonder if, so now your pips are going to get really interested in this, I wonder if when you took that job and it was about sales, you were given a certain way to do the sales, and you had to do this, and you had to meet this quota, and whatever it was, right, there was structure set to that, and maybe that structure didn't use your strengths the way that they needed to be used.


Rachel Freemon Sowers:

But now you're a coach, now you're in this business, and you're selling all the time. Right? So, but now you've done it in a way that is true to you. You've done it in a way where you've developed your own structure. You've done it in a way that's an enhancement of why you want to be here doing what you do.


Kevin Shabaar Smith:

Yeah. I'm having the-


Rachel Freemon Sowers:

Look, everybody, that look is the look of [inaudible 00:10:42]. That's so true.


Kevin Shabaar Smith:

Well, I'm having these flashbacks, right, of living in Tampa, Florida, and going door to door and selling these discount dining cards. Right? That's how I got my start in sales years and years and years ago. And man, it was just knock on the door, get rejected, knock on the door, get rejected, and then on the 10th one you hope that you don't get rejected. And then it was just like... It wasn't fear.


Rachel Freemon Sowers:

Right.


Kevin Shabaar Smith:

Most people would think of fear. Right?


Rachel Freemon Sowers:

Right.


Kevin Shabaar Smith:

And I think it's the same with most people listening right now. It was a discomfort because of my emotional attachment to people disliking me. Right.


Rachel Freemon Sowers:

Right. So, in essence, it was a fear.


Kevin Shabaar Smith:

A fear of losing that attachment perhaps.


Rachel Freemon Sowers:

Well, it was the fear of someone not liking you enough to buy this discount diners card from you.


Kevin Shabaar Smith:

Yeah. Rachel, after this is over, I'm going to have to sit and I'm going to have to now marinate in thought for like 30 minutes and Dr. Phil myself into [inaudible 00:12:05].


Rachel Freemon Sowers:

Don't Dr. Phil, Rachel Freemon Sowers yourself.


Kevin Shabaar Smith:

Right. Yeah.


Rachel Freemon Sowers:

I'm going to adopt that whole thing and make it new. Thanks for that.


Kevin Shabaar Smith:

And so, on one level I knew that they didn't dislike me. I knew that they didn't really truly dislike me, because they didn't know me. They didn't know me.


Rachel Freemon Sowers:

Right.


Kevin Shabaar Smith:

I just knocked on their door. But I couldn't even stand it for one second, even that split moment where you feel as though they dislike you in just that second, was enough to throw me to make me not do this big huge sales process. So interesting. So weird.


Rachel Freemon Sowers:

It is interesting because you set it out. This is the difference between mindset and emotion. I knew logically in my mind that they didn't even know me. I didn't know these people. Who were they? I just wanted them to buy this freaking $10 discount meal card from me. But in that moment, something from your history, your pattern way of being, after this look into your body and feel like, what did that feel like? It felt like that time when. Because like I said before, our somatic bodies never forget anything.


Rachel Freemon Sowers:

So the very first time you were rejected from your girlfriend or your boyfriend, or you broke up and it was your first love in fourth grade, or this guy Aaron kissed me on the school bus on the cheek before he got off the bus, I mean, you remember all of that because you can recall it in your body. It is the most primal way that we're protected.


Kevin Shabaar Smith:

Yeah. And that brings me to something that you had mentioned when we spoke earlier, the last time we spoke before this podcast episode, and that was about programming your body. So what is the connection between that? I mean, I know on some level, and I think most of the people listening now know that you take care of your body, it helps take care of your mind, it's success, right? When you feel healthy, you act... All of that stuff. But what do you mean by program your body for success?


Kevin Shabaar Smith:

And you had mentioned, and one of these minutes here I'm going to let you answer, but I got to get this out because it's stuck up here. And if I don't get it out then I'm going to be mad later. But you said to program your body for success and ease. Now, when I think of getting my body ready for success, I think about getting my body ready to handle discomfort, right?


Kevin Shabaar Smith:

I want to get in shape so I can handle the stress. I want to get in shape so I can handle all the crap that's coming my way. I want to get in shape so I can work longer hours and all of that stuff. But you said program your body for success and ease, what do you mean by that?


Rachel Freemon Sowers:

So I love that you brought this up, because intelligent, ambitious, and driven individuals program themselves to sustain through discomfort. Like this is going to be the long haul, I need to prep myself. All of that stuff is true. But I'm wondering what causes you or your listeners to not plan for ease, right? You're going to work out, you're going to eat healthy, you're going to do all these things so that your body lasts longer.


Rachel Freemon Sowers:

Well, when I do that, I create more ease in my life because I experience more endorphins released in my body from exercise. When I do that, I can recall those endorphins. I can get that feeling back without even exercising if I wanted to. And the ease comes instead of having-


Kevin Shabaar Smith:

Wait, hold on. Wait. Stop. I got to stop you. Did you just say, hold on, all right, so, I think I heard you just say that you exercise or you become healthy because of the release of endorphins, but now you can release them without, is that what you said?


Rachel Freemon Sowers:

Absolutely. Absolutely you can.

Kevin Shabaar Smith:

I've been thinking about that.


Rachel Freemon Sowers:

So once your body creates a feeling, once you create a feeling in your body, hormones are released, right? This isn't like oh, this is science and woo-woo, some people call it, faith and whatever, but the science is that when I exercise, I release endorphins. Endorphins help you feel better, right?


Kevin Shabaar Smith:

Yes.


Rachel Freemon Sowers:

It lifts your mood. There's tons of stuff with mental health and exercise, half hour a day, all those things. Right?


Kevin Shabaar Smith:

Right.


Rachel Freemon Sowers:

So when I create that, all I have to do is imagine myself exercise again to recreate that feeling, because our brains do not know the difference between what is actually a reality and what is a thought. That is like this golden ticket. So I do this thing called power posing with large amounts of people and with my individual clients. It is to create a feeling of confidence, to create a feeling of success without an external stimulant. Right? I'm just developing it from within.


Rachel Freemon Sowers:

Now, it's good to go back to say like, yes, I want to work out and I want to do all these things, but what you to feel like you have to prep yourself so much for all this hardship that's coming your way. Because that is a perspective shift. That is a patterned way of being that says I better prep myself because all this hard stuff is coming.


Kevin Shabaar Smith:

You're right. Yes.


Rachel Freemon Sowers:

Right?


Kevin Shabaar Smith:

And I felt like that for years and years and years and years and years and years and years, because that used to be the gold standard. I mean, we, at least my age... The generation X-


Rachel Freemon Sowers:

Yeah. I'm with you.


Kevin Shabaar Smith:

... we learned that you become successful by starting work earlier and finishing work later. You'd have this proud thing, I put in a 60 hour week this week, or I put in 65 hours, 70 hours this week, and I look back on it, I'm like it's crazy talk. But yeah, when I started to take care of myself physically, I think that I was starting to do it so I could handle the working the 65 hours a week and all the stress.


Rachel Freemon Sowers:

Right. Because you had determined from a belief that you was emotionally and culturally implanted in both me and you watching our fathers work hard, watching our mothers work hard, doing whatever we needed to do to put food on the table, all of those things. We had an emotional attachment that said, this is what you do to stay safe, this is what you do to keep food on the table. Food is a primal need. So you have an emotion attached to that, which then, well, I'm not working very hard because I didn't do my 60 hours this week. So then you see the pendulum.


Kevin Shabaar Smith:

Yeah, you feel like a slacker. Because I only worked 40 hours this week, they're going to take away my entrepreneur card if I [crosstalk 00:19:46].


Rachel Freemon Sowers:

Right. So this is where all the science and the pendulum starts swinging towards something like I don't have to work that many hours. If I have deeper focus, if I do deeper work, I work shorter amount of hours. And now because I'm creating that structure and I consistently allow my body to experience the success of that, it takes apart these belief systems and makes new ones. The things that fire together wire together. If you're counseling-


Kevin Shabaar Smith:

Say that one more time. I like that.


Rachel Freemon Sowers:

The things that wire together fire together.


Kevin Shabaar Smith:

I like that.


Rachel Freemon Sowers:

So, you're changing, you're telling your body on a primal level, this is okay. You have more joy, let's just say, in your heart, because you're actually like, holy cow, I'm doing this right, it's working. Then your mind is like, hey, let's jump on board, we don't have to do that anymore to be the definition or my definition of success, that doesn't have to be met in that way anymore.


Kevin Shabaar Smith:

Yeah. Right.


Rachel Freemon Sowers:

And then you create the pattern.


Kevin Shabaar Smith:

Yeah, absolutely. So if I am an entrepreneur, let's take this from high level to high level here. If I am an entrepreneur and I'm overhearing us chat here and I'm saying, okay, I need to reprogram my body so I can work better every day, better, not more hours, not necessarily harder, but I can work better every day. How do I do that? How do I start making that change and making that program so it sticks every single day?


Rachel Freemon Sowers:

So there's a couple of key things. First you have to define what better means. Better is very general. When people tell me I want to be happy, I don't know what that means. So just like in business, just like in your ICA, you have to narrow it down. Okay, let's just, since you're willing to do it, what would it be for you, for your work? What would better mean for you and your business?


Kevin Shabaar Smith:

For me and my business right now?


Rachel Freemon Sowers:

Mm-hmm.


Kevin Shabaar Smith:

Okay. I just started another company in the brick and mortar space.


Rachel Freemon Sowers:

Okay.


Kevin Shabaar Smith:

And so my working, I don't know why, I'm just a glutton for punishment is all, that's all it is.


Rachel Freemon Sowers:

Patterned way of being.


Kevin Shabaar Smith:

All right. Yeah, so seriously, my definition of working better right now would be being able to build this team working around me and do it in a way that isn't doubling my own work that I need to do.


Rachel Freemon Sowers:

Okay.


Kevin Shabaar Smith:

So I have the stuff that I need to do as a leader of an organization, but I also have to get my team members around me up to speed and running the way that they need to run without that meaning double the work onto me. So if I could do that and get that down, I would consider that working better.


Rachel Freemon Sowers:

Okay. So you have a belief that could possibly mean... Your expansion could possibly mean that you are going to have to double down on your work?


Kevin Shabaar Smith:

Yes.


Rachel Freemon Sowers:

Okay. So then, we have to define better, but really what the belief system is, is I'm so afraid I'm going to have to double down. Now I'm not saying you're running like a chicken with your head cut off, afraid, crying and doing all those things, right?


Rachel Freemon Sowers:

Fear comes in several different forms, but what may be the thing that is really keeping you from stepping into the possibility that I won't ever have to double down is this thing that says I've seen it in the past, I've had to work doubly hard to get this thing started, and so now if I'm adding a whole nother thing to my plate, I'm going to have to work like double, triple, quadruple hard, because I'm adding it to my plate. And I don't know where I'm going to find the time, and where am I going to find the energy. And I have to develop this team. But how do I make sure the team... Right?


Kevin Shabaar Smith:

Yes.


Rachel Freemon Sowers:

So you spiral down a rabbit hole. Okay. So, that's the belief that you now need to change your emotional attachment to. So, what would it feel like to you if it happened, it just flowed? What would that feel like in your body? What would that experience be like?


Kevin Shabaar Smith:

That would be fantastic.


Rachel Freemon Sowers:

But what would it feel like in your body? Because you're in your head right now. Everyone see how he's looking up?


Kevin Shabaar Smith:

Yeah. I am in my head.


Rachel Freemon Sowers:

So what would it feel like


Kevin Shabaar Smith:

I'm searching for words. Yeah. It would feel calming.


Rachel Freemon Sowers:

Okay.


Kevin Shabaar Smith:

Yeah, that's the number one word that comes to my mind. It would feel calming.


Rachel Freemon Sowers:

Okay. So now in the development of this brick and mortar business, you do things in a way that helps you feel calm. I'm going to schedule out these interviews for potential team members, I'm going to organize my data, or my needs, or the task list in a way that feels organized and straight to the point so that I can feel calm in the development of this business.


Kevin Shabaar Smith:

So, I want to make sure that I understand what... Listen, the coach in me is sneaking out right now, right?


Rachel Freemon Sowers:

No, just-


Kevin Shabaar Smith:

You can hear it kind of, I want to make sure that we're on the same page. If I hear you correctly, so what you're say-


Rachel Freemon Sowers:

I never say that by the way.


Kevin Shabaar Smith:

What's that?


Rachel Freemon Sowers:

I never say that, if I hear you correctly.


Kevin Shabaar Smith:

I do from time to time, but only when I really mean it. So, I think what you're telling me is that if I can define how I want to feel, and if I can keep that feeling on front of mind as I start to plan how I'm going to do my things, then I can plan things that make me feel that way.


Rachel Freemon Sowers:

Yes. So-


Kevin Shabaar Smith:

Okay. I'm doing the work in a way that leaves space for me to feel that way.


Rachel Freemon Sowers:

Yes. So, there's going to be challenges. You're going to feel excitement, you're going to feel frustration. But this is what I call rocking the paradox, is that you can feel all those things and still have some calmness about it.


Kevin Shabaar Smith:

I like that you just said rocking the paradox a lot. It's so you, like, of course you've just said that. Okay. Yeah. All right.


Rachel Freemon Sowers:

So I feel like we think that we have to feel one way or another, but as humans we feel ranges of emotion. We just don't want to camp out there. We just don't want to say, oh, I'm going to claim this. And the minute you claim that now in order to build a whole nother business in a brick and mortar it's going to be so stressful, it's going to be so time consuming, there's going to be all these things that I'm going to have to do and I better prep myself because no matter how many times you work out and how good your body feels, if emotionally you're drained, it doesn't matter.


Rachel Freemon Sowers:

Your body will say no thank you and shut down. Because tell me, I know you've gotten sick because there's been handled too much stress, happened to me this last week.


Kevin Shabaar Smith:

Yeah. When I first got into business a long time ago, again, I was operating on that old theory of the more hours you work is the equivalent to how successful you become. When I say I took it to heart I mean I took it to heart. I quit even trying to count how many hours I was working, I didn't even want to know. And it did affect me to the point where I got sick. And I know that there's a lot of people who are listening to this right now, are doing the same thing. They're doing the same thing. So, yeah, I totally resonate with that.


Rachel Freemon Sowers:

So when you find out how you want to be feeling in a process, then you can define the structure and the behaviors that are most likely to have that outcome, and you can always return to that. So if you think of right now, and I mean think, if you think of a time when business was just flowing along, can you think of a time, you don't have to say it out loud, but just tell me?


Kevin Shabaar Smith:

Yeah, absolutely.


Rachel Freemon Sowers:

Okay. So, and if you're watching this recording, Kevin is so brave, I just have to tell you. He is a practice what you preach person, and I think we're going to be longterm friends, I'm hoping [inaudible 00:28:53].


Kevin Shabaar Smith:

I hear you.


Rachel Freemon Sowers:

Right? So if you just think of that, what feeling do you have come over your body when things are just flowing? It's more easy. Clients are coming, you are going through your day getting done exactly what you need to get done. You have time for the carpool, you have time to go for a walk during the day, everything is just in flow. Can you think of that? How does your body feel?


Kevin Shabaar Smith:

Relaxed.


Rachel Freemon Sowers:

Right. Right now, did you go and do any of those things? Right now?


Kevin Shabaar Smith:

Right now?


Rachel Freemon Sowers:

Yeah. Did you go and do anything in order to create that feeling?


Kevin Shabaar Smith:

Not right now. I'm talking to you right now.


Rachel Freemon Sowers:

Right. But you recall that feeling in your body.


Kevin Shabaar Smith:

See, now I got you where you're going. Yes. Got you.


Rachel Freemon Sowers:

Right?


Kevin Shabaar Smith:

Yes.


Rachel Freemon Sowers:

So this is the key that you then leverage your emotions with. So you weren't afraid when you went door knocking to sell the discounted meal cards in a particular sense, but you weren't afraid to knock on the door, let's just say that. You were afraid of what they would say. Now, if I bring up that scenario, can you bring up that feeling you felt when that person said no to you?


Kevin Shabaar Smith:

Yeah, sure. Yeah.


Rachel Freemon Sowers:

Right. And you haven't done anything to go back and knock on that same person's door or become whatever age you were and do it again. This is one of the top secrets that I help people move through. If you move through this, you won't ever be held back by that emotion again, because you're going to leverage it into something else.


Kevin Shabaar Smith:

Yeah. You know what's amazing? Is... So I think I knew this but backwards, and I think other coaches that are listening to this know it but backwards. We tell everybody that what you're feeling is fear, but that fear isn't reality.


Kevin Shabaar Smith:

It's like if you're on a safari, right, and you're in the brush, and you're just walking along in the African Tundra and you see a lion, how do you feel? Really, really scared, right? Now, if you're walking through the same Tundra and you just think that you see a lion, how do you feel? Right? You just feel the exact same way. And I tell people that when I'm talking about doubt and fear, but I seldom tell people that when it comes to the positive side of things, I go like, yeah, even though you're not doing that right now, if you put your mind there, right, or your emotions there, you can feel that again.


Rachel Freemon Sowers:

Well, you put your mind there, then your body recalls, right?


Kevin Shabaar Smith:

Yeah.


Rachel Freemon Sowers:

So that's why re-programing the body, and you reprogram your mind the same time, it's not disconnected. We're not cut off at the neck or anything, it's all one system. Right? And so, it's what you now tell yourself to be the truth, just like you've said. Whether I imagine a tiger or lion that's not even there or it's really there, my reaction is the same because my brain thinks it's real.


Rachel Freemon Sowers:

So in the base of our rain we have this thing called the reticular activation system, and that is how we know what to focus on. Right? So if I, let's say I went, well, I'll just... I went and bought a white Dodge, 2014 Dodge Dart, a few years ago, whatever. I know it's a prestigious car. Don't judge it of course. I love it. I don't have any payments. Right.


Kevin Shabaar Smith:

Right. It's the best car.


Rachel Freemon Sowers:

Yeah. Then I was doing research and we were looking, so then on the freeway I saw a lot of white Dodge Darts that were exactly like the one I was thinking about buying or that I had bought, and because this is what I had told my mind to focus on. So when people say this is just who I am, it's just what I do, that's only, again, and so you don't want to do, or be, or interact in the world that way.


Kevin Shabaar Smith:

Yeah, totally makes sense. 100%. Makes a whole lot of sense.


Rachel Freemon Sowers:

So when you shift it and say, maybe I can feel some calm in the upcoming project in this process of building, maybe there's more joy than I realized there might be, what are you going to look for?


Kevin Shabaar Smith:

I'm going to look for, I don't want to say activities, but interactions that make me feel calm.


Rachel Freemon Sowers:

Right. And interactions where you experienced more joy, where you can experience more ease. This isn't about positive thinking, this isn't, oh, I'm going to do this. I hate the phrase fake it till you make it. You don't need to do that. I get the premise of that, but I just don't like doing that. Let's just get you to where you believe it and you change the emotional reaction you have to something. Why don't we just start from the foundation again instead of doing this whole other thing up here [inaudible 00:34:28]?


Kevin Shabaar Smith:

Right. Yeah. That's super interesting. Is there a common, you work with a lot of entrepreneurs, is there a common area where people feel the most fear? I don't know if that's the right word, but the type of problem that you'd see more often than others in the people that you deal with.

Rachel Freemon Sowers:

I think one of the top ones is being seen. And we trust ourselves on a surface level, but we don't trust ourselves on a deeper level. I don't ever worry if I'm making the right decision, ever. I no longer have this thought process of should I, should I not, should I, should I not? Because whatever comes to me, I've tuned in to the wise woman within me. For you it'd be the wise person within you, the wise one within you, whether that's intuition or whatever. And that is what I ultimately trust. But imposter syndrome comes from that same thing.


Kevin Shabaar Smith:

So when you say, to be seen, what do you mean by that?


Rachel Freemon Sowers:

So, they have fears of putting themselves out there.


Kevin Shabaar Smith:

Oh, got you.


Rachel Freemon Sowers:

They have fears of what, I mean, I have this woman in my membership, she has a PhD. I went to PhD school with her, she's completed her PhD, she's brilliant. And still she says, I'm going to put this stuff out there, but what if someone doesn't blah, blah, blah. I have a PhD, but I still have financial hiccups in my belief system.


Kevin Shabaar Smith:

Yeah, I hear a lot of the same. Yeah.


Rachel Freemon Sowers:

And really it's from cultural things, right? This isn't something that developed today in us. I mean, come on. You don't have to review every part of your childhood, but it's to understand the cultural things that we're dealing with. Right? So when people are evolving and are ready to take the next step up and to level up their business, just like you help them do, there's a component of that that needs to say, I'm willing to look into the eyes of these emotions that I've experienced in the past and tell myself they are no longer true. And that can be the most intimidating, vulnerable, scary thing a person can do.


Kevin Shabaar Smith:

Yeah. I totally get that. I think, and especially in this online world that a lot of us coaches work in, you have to put yourself out there even more than you normally would. When I had my first brick and mortar consulting business, I was local here in Pennsylvania and I would just go to a networking event, slowly introduce my people. I'm not video recording myself and sending it to thousands of people.


Kevin Shabaar Smith:

So I think when people are entering in this online space, I think it could even be more intimidating putting yourself out there to be seen by, and you don't have control then over who sees you.


Rachel Freemon Sowers:

Nope.


Kevin Shabaar Smith:

In a networking I know who can see me and who can't. Right.


Rachel Freemon Sowers:

So you have the feedback, that immediate feedback. So this is the perfect example of the calming feeling you want to have. If I want to feel courageous, expansive, masterful, and consistent, it has to only rely on my production of those feelings. Because online world is different because you don't get immediate feedback. And some of the feedback people don't even know you and they just do, haters will always hate. They are out there.

Kevin Shabaar Smith:

Right.


Rachel Freemon Sowers:

They will say, there are people that say, you're smoking crack, you're in the woo-woo, you're blah, blah, blah. Okay, whatever. Right? It's the logical part of me not knowing, but still that maybe affects people in some way.


Kevin Shabaar Smith:

Yeah. Brilliant. Yeah. 100%. I agree.

Rachel Freemon Sowers:

So this is why I focus and what I tell everyone that I've worked with, even in the free clarity sessions or whatever, how do you want to be feeling? That becomes the focus, and it's not dependent on a person as an external stimulant. Right?


Kevin Shabaar Smith:

Mm-hmm (affirmative)-.


Rachel Freemon Sowers:

So I then can get on a video, and show up, and trust myself, and be my best, and put it out there. And sometimes I'm best [inaudible 00:39:19] a baseball cap and a sweatshirt. I mean, let's just be real about things, right?

Kevin Shabaar Smith:

Yeah.


Rachel Freemon Sowers:

And I don't have to feel any shame or embarrassment about anything, because I trusted myself, and I get to feel courageous, expansive, masterful, and consistent, and when I do this action, when I do the action, not waiting for someone to validate my action.


Kevin Shabaar Smith:

Yeah. And I think that, no, I can talk about this all day really.


Rachel Freemon Sowers:

I know this is dangerous zone because... Right.


Kevin Shabaar Smith:

Yeah, Right.


Rachel Freemon Sowers:

Literally break this up into five segments.


Kevin Shabaar Smith:

You're right. Yeah. Because people talk about authenticity all the time. Be authentic, be authentic, but most of the time people aren't. I think one of the things when I first was checking out some of your stuff, like authentic. You could just tell that that person is the way that that person is, very cool. I still catch myself, because I came through the "corporaty" type stuff, right, where people talk really weird, like I certainly would like to get together so we can collaborate about some new dimensions of work.


Kevin Shabaar Smith:

I literally have to take a corporate shower. I'm done having some of these conversations. Right. And I promised myself I would never go back to talking, why can't you just say, let's meet and see if we can come up with something cool to do. And I think a lot of that comes from, like you were saying, you don't have to talk at this level until you get some level of validation to then be able to come down to a more comfortable level and then speak like a normal person.


Rachel Freemon Sowers:

Right.


Kevin Shabaar Smith:

And I think once you give yourself that okay, I think it really comes across. You can tell on videos like this or on videos on Facebook or Instagram, you can tell when people are like, hey, this is me, love it or leave it, this is...


Rachel Freemon Sowers:

Right. A lot of people turn that into, I just don't care what other people think. Well, I never want to be a person that doesn't care. I just want to pay attention to what I care for and care about myself first.


Kevin Shabaar Smith:

Yeah. I think that's a great point. I agree with you. When people say, I don't care what other people think, I nod my head but I'm always like, I don't know if that's true. I don't know if that's true. I know I care what people think, I'm not going to let it direct what I do or how I conduct my business. But if people are like, damn, I really hate Kevin, he's an asshole. I don't ever like being around him. I care. I don't want people to think that about me. Right? But you just don't let it direct-


Rachel Freemon Sowers:

Right.


Kevin Shabaar Smith:

... you.


Rachel Freemon Sowers:

Yeah. So that's where you reach the next level. As humans, we will have those experiences, absolutely. Just because I am more emotionally intelligent about myself does that mean I still don't have frustrations, I still don't have down days, I still don't have doubts, but the timeframe in which I stay there is so much shorter. Oh, okay, yeah, okay, thanks for that information, moving on.


Kevin Shabaar Smith:

Yeah. It's a fleeting [inaudible 00:42:54].


Rachel Freemon Sowers:

Yeah. Which then is what enables you to sell now.


Kevin Shabaar Smith:

Yeah. Perfect. Yes. If you say no to me, I don't take it as you're rejecting me.


Rachel Freemon Sowers:

It has nothing to do with you the majority of the time.


Kevin Shabaar Smith:

No.


Rachel Freemon Sowers:

And even if someone says, well, I don't want to work with Kevin because he was too straightforward and intimidating. I don't know if anyone would ever say that to you, they've said that to me. Right. Rachel, you're really intimidating, can you tone it down some? No. I mean, I always consider feedback. Absolutely. And I will do what makes sense for me to do in my life in the way I want to interact, in the way I want to be as a woman entrepreneur in this world. However, the feeling of intimidation isn't about me. It's about that person and what is being triggered inside of them that I have nothing to do with.


Kevin Shabaar Smith:

Right. Yeah.


Rachel Freemon Sowers:

So if you unattach it's not about you.


Kevin Shabaar Smith:

Yeah. That's so good, so good. Yeah, I could talk about that. Right. Let's say I call you every day around 2:00.


Rachel Freemon Sowers:

Fantastic.


Kevin Shabaar Smith:

So what I'd like to do is ask you two questions about business. Can we make-


... a shift to your business?


Rachel Freemon Sowers:

Yes.


Kevin Shabaar Smith:

All right. So, how did you get your first client?


Rachel Freemon Sowers:

So, I had my own private practice, and then this last February I transitioned to be in a totally online capacity. And so in my private practice, my very first client came through insurance, right? However, in my online transition, my very first client in my membership came from my work that I had done previously in a therapeutic realm.

Kevin Shabaar Smith:

Right.


Rachel Freemon Sowers:

So she had an idea. So it morphed into, but the private practice was easy because clients just came to me. I was never really searching for clients ever.


Kevin Shabaar Smith:

Got you.


Rachel Freemon Sowers:

So, that transition has been more difficult to launch my membership, but that has come from a consistent way of being that people know who I am.


Kevin Shabaar Smith:

Yeah. And I do want to talk about your membership here in a quick second, but to go along with that first question, how did you get your most recent client?


Rachel Freemon Sowers:

I got my most recent client from an onstage speaking gig I did.


Kevin Shabaar Smith:

Nice.


Rachel Freemon Sowers:

So I've been doing more speaking events, and that is a way for me to feel courageous and expansive. And so I did this event, it's called the go-red event. It's for heart health. So go-red event. And there was 488 plus women and men in the room, and she came up to me afterwards, and she was crying, and she's like, just thank you so much for all that empowerment. We did this experiential exercise because it's mind, body and spirit, not just the mind or the body, and we connected those, but what it does is have such a huge impact.


Rachel Freemon Sowers:

And so she came up to me with several other people, which is such an honor for me, right, to hear these stories when they come up to you, and she's just like, I'm ready to do some work. I'm ready to get the results I want. I'm ready to move forward. And I was like, okay.


Kevin Shabaar Smith:

Nice.


Rachel Freemon Sowers:

And that's...


Kevin Shabaar Smith:

It's beautiful. Right?


Rachel Freemon Sowers:

... how it happened. Yeah, it's amazing. Speaking from stage is one of my, I mean, I love it. It's just like a highlight.


Kevin Shabaar Smith:

Yeah. I tell people who are struggling finding those first few clients to really get some momentum, find a stage. If you can find a stage, and craft your message and find a stage, finding a stage is easier than finding a client sometimes. So if you can find a stage, that's the key.


Rachel Freemon Sowers:

Well, and starting small too. So maybe you go and talk about your self to this group. Or again, there's no greater asset or skill that you're going to need more than knowing yourself. Because a stage can be anywhere. It can be in the grocery store line, I mean, and it doesn't... Not everyone wants to speak in front of thousands of people. That is my goal, thousands of people, right?


Kevin Shabaar Smith:

Yup.


Rachel Freemon Sowers:

But it didn't start there. I've talked to several thousands of people over 18 years and helped each one of them build their life. Right? So starting small and then saying, I mean, if you have a belief of what a stage particularly looks like, plant the seed of doubt that maybe that's not how it looks. That's how you then start addressing that patterned way of being, of disconnecting what you thought was true and putting it over here with a different emotion and way of being.


Kevin Shabaar Smith:

Yeah. 100%. I can't agree with that more. I think a lot of people... When I tell people, find a stage and put yourself out there, they automatically try to envision themselves up on stage in a Ted talk in front of 5,000 people, and then they of course get scared, and they go back inward, and then they just, no, that won't work, let's do Facebook ads, right, or something like that.


Rachel Freemon Sowers:

Right.


Kevin Shabaar Smith:

But yeah, redefining what you consider a stage to be is a brilliant piece of advice, because it could be talking in front of two people, it can be even talking in a group of five people. It could be anything that you create it to be.


Rachel Freemon Sowers:

Absolutely.


Kevin Shabaar Smith:

Yeah, and it's a great workout for your business. You've mentioned your group a couple of times, I'd love to hear about it. What's going on there?


Rachel Freemon Sowers:

So I have a membership for female online entrepreneurs and professionals. It's called powerful by design, the collective. So, like I said already, I'm all about building relationships and what I've seen in the online world is, remember I've gone to this being totally working one on one with thousands of people, right, over the last years, to having this bigger forum. But I saw in the online world where people will take courses, they'll take all these things, and it's not that they don't know what to do already, but it's implementing what they do by leveraging the emotions that appear to be keeping them stuck, right?


Rachel Freemon Sowers:

It's all about getting that little deeper and having those foundational shifts that you don't have to keep doing the same thing over and over and over again. A lot of women say, I keep doing it, why can't I? I'm a CEO, I'm a blah, blah, blah, and why can't I just get this one simple thing? And then they degrade themselves. So then you go into the old patterned way of being. So what I'm offering in this membership is simply an emotional... The most effective way for people to make progress and get the results they want is by addressing their emotional challenges as well as their strategic challenges.


Kevin Shabaar Smith:

We should talk for two more days. So if people want to get ahold of you, check out your group, talk to you more, what is the best way for them to connect with you?


Rachel Freemon Sowers:

So, they can connect with me through my website, rachelfreemonsowers.com. And if you go to the work with me page, there is a 20 minute free clarity session that you can have, and a lot of women who are experiencing some blocks or feeling stuck, they do that, and we go through a process in that little 20 minutes. I'm on Facebook more than I am on Instagram. If you go to my Instagram there's nothing there since December 31st. I'm not afraid of it, I'm just going to leave it there. Facebook, my Rachel Freemon Sowers business page, tons of videos.


Kevin Shabaar Smith:

I'll put a couple links here on this page too so people can check you out as well.


Rachel Freemon Sowers:

Yeah. Then just feel free to email me, rachelfreemonsowers@gmail.com, and just let me know that you heard it on this podcast and you are either currently working with Kevin and you think he's awesome, because, well. Look, I love doing that to him because I think... I hope this whole media video does get to be seen by your mastermind group, what do you call it, your workroom, because I love the facial expressions you make. So those are the ways to look for me, and I'll be doing some upcoming speaking events and things like that, but just reach out.


Kevin Shabaar Smith:

Okay.


Rachel Freemon Sowers:

I'd love to hear from you.


Kevin Shabaar Smith:

Yeah. And if you guys are listening to this, Rachel is the real deal. You need to get ahold of her if any of this resonated with you whatsoever. I encourage you to do that. Reach out to her. She's the best. It's awesome talking to you.


Rachel Freemon Sowers:

Yeah. We need to have more conversations.


Kevin Shabaar Smith:

Yeah, we definitely do. We'll definitely be in touch, and look forward to talking to you again. Listen, I appreciate you being here, taking time out of your day. It was awesome. I think the people listening to this are going to get a ton of value. So, I appreciate you bringing it.


Rachel Freemon Sowers:

Well, thank you so much. Thank you so much for inviting me to be here and making that connection and trusting the process.


Kevin Shabaar Smith:

You got it. I'll talk to you soon.


Rachel Freemon Sowers:

All right.

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© 2018 Kevin S Smith | Leaderstone, Inc.

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